Page 3 Pa Mountain Lion

This was hit by a truck on Mill Creek Road .
This is a BIG cat!

A friend sent this to me. The mountain lion was killed east of Altoona and south of State College , Pa. northeast of Raystown Lake between Mt. Union and Huntingdon , Pa. .. One doesn’t think about big cats being in this eastern part of the country. Game commissions have denied it for a long time.

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83 Responses to “Page 3 Pa Mountain Lion”

  1. Chris

    just to back Art up, in december of 08 i was coyote hunting just up the hill from the roaring run walking trail, in the apollo/kiski/ vandergrift area, and saw what i thought were mountain lion tracks in the snow. sure enough, about a month later i was night hunting coyotes in the same area and had the pleasure of seeing the huge cat walking a logging road not even seventy yards from me..not sure if it was a male or female, but i would guess it weighed at least ninety pounds. i do have pictures of the prints in the snow, but i couldnt figure out how to post them here. as for pictures of the cat, i was content with him or her not being notified of my location since i only had my 22mag..i plan on going back soon to do some more coyote hunting, maybe ill be lucky enough to see it again and get some pictures

    • Anonymous

      Was that near leechburgh?

  2. shakerj

    I am sorry by me trying to update this web site I lost all my comments about the Pa. Mountain Lion. could those of you who made comments resubmit them
    Thanks
    Shake

    • Anonymous

      why the hell did you kill it?

      • Anonymous

        Why not they kill lots of deer not including they can and will kill you or maybe your dog or cat!!

  3. David

    Sorry to have to tell you this but those pictures are not from a Mtn Lion killed in PA. Apparently, that cat was killed by a car in AZ, but the pics have been used as a hoax in many other states… here’s one from Virginia:

    http://hstallard.blogspot.com/2008/03/mountain-lion-hoax-in-virginia.html

    • Anonymous

      YEAH THIS SHIT happens all the time… I got one in Dec 2010 and someone took a picture of it and said they shot it … WHAT A BUNCH ON DUMBASSES !!!!!!

      • Anonymous

        20 years ago pa game commission said there where not any coyotes in pa either they are here now

      • Brian Brew

        Hes right.. weve been reporting coyotes since i was a young buck 20 years ago and it has always been like trying to report a bigfoot sighting.. now coyotes can be found in the city of philadelphia lol. Not to mention out in bedford pa a friend of ours that has a cabin on the same mountain reported seeing a mountain lion while night hunting.. hes not the type to make this up and not the only one on those mountains to claim to have seen that lion..

  4. Anonymous

    your the DUMBASS for denying the possiablity of mountain lion’s being in pa. Anyone that know’s anything about them know’s that they can and do cover thousand’s of miles in there lifetime. Who’s to say that they can’t and will not wander into Pa. P.S. Please keep your DUMBASS pessimistic comments to yourself! Thanks!

  5. Michelle

    your the DUMBASS for denying the possiablity of mountain lion’s being in pa. Anyone that know’s anything about them know’s that they can and do cover thousand’s of miles in there lifetime. Who’s to say that they can’t and will not wander into Pa. P.S. Please keep your DUMBASS pessimistic comments to yourself! Thanks!

    • Anonymous

      Even if its a hoax as some say.in your own mind don’t you wish you would have the unique opportunity to see one in the woods not on the road dead.I’ve had that opportunity and wish the skeptical couch potatoes would also.

  6. Anonymous

    Yea I know I have a guy at work name Lou Cox that said his friend hit it in williamsport, PA. Google it’ll get cha

    • Mare Bastian

      About five or six years ago while working as a bus driver we saw a cat outside of Williamsport and it was in no way a bobcat, this was huge and had the long tail. There were other bus drivers who saw this also, but we all decided not to say anything as the locals would think we were crazy. I know what I saw.

  7. Anonymous

    IF THIS IS FOR REAL WHY ISN’T THERE ANYTHING ON THE NEWS OR LOCAL NEWSPAPERS? THE NEWS WOULD BE ALL OVER THIS

  8. Anonymous

    weather its from pa or not those of us in pa who have been told there are no big cats in pa, know better we have seen them! they are here in the endless mountains.bought in to hunt elk in the canyon area, not all were taken out!

    • Heather Karalfa

      I cannot agree with you more! I was maybe only around 7 at the time of the occurrence. However, I can still remember driving home (to Johnstown) with my parents on a major Pennsylvania highway in the middle of the night – only to be met by two, small mountain lion cubs, lounging in the middle of the road! We were absolutely awe-struck…but, unfortunately, this was during an era when cell phones did not exist, and keeping a digital camera on hand was not the norm. Regardless, I will never forget that night, as it has been permanently etched on my mind. Mountain lions DO still reside in PA – and no one can convince me of otherwise since. I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, what we saw.

      • Anonymous

        I didn’t see a mountain lion but last summer a friend and I were fishing at twin lakes in Westmorland county and heard what I think was a cougar. I’ve listened to many animal sounds and the only one that comes close to what we heard is a cougar screaming and it doesn’t just come close it’s spot on the exact sound we heard.

      • markpkessinger

        “Cougar” and “mountain lion” are essentially the same thing. Just different terms.

      • Sherry

        There was a cougar (mountain lion) seen by at least 5 residents on different occasions in the Twin Lakes Area around 5 or 6 years ago

  9. Anonymous

    I believe that there are cats in PA. I was born and raised in NW PA and have seen a mountain lion north of Kane when I was younger. While driving north on 321 I avoided hitting a large cat and it scared the s**t out of me. Later in life there were large cat prints found around a deer carcass in Cherry Grove.

  10. Anonymous

    I believe there are cats in PA, whether the game commision agrees or not. In the 80’s or so the game commision didn’t believe/ tell anyone about coyotes in Pa. Now yotes are everywhere.

  11. caitlin

    wow that is one big paw pappap

  12. Anonymous

    just saw one today near blairsville, there is no other explanation for what my wife an i saw,

    • Anonymous

      Also saw one on flood control area behind Torrance state hospital in Blairsville about a month ago. My son saw one in area about a year ago. We both have cell phone pics of tracks. walk along the river for a while and you will find very large cat tracks in several mudholes. Call me crazy if you want to but I know what I saw.

  13. Kathy Miller Hebert

    Kathy
    I know as a young girl growing up near Mill Creak PA we saw a big cat several time and my cousin almost hit it with his cat. Not only myself but my father and several other family members saw it as well. And at night you could hear it sometimes it sounded like a baby crying and then it would let out a scream that would make the hair on the back of your neck stand up. This all took place in the early 70’s and I’m sure they are still around. We lived on a farm and it would pass through there every year in the spring. We assumed it spent its winters on the Mt.

  14. Gary Robinson

    I saw a moutain lion in the Snow Shoe Pa area 9 years ago..I know what I saw ..It was no more than 20 yards away from my house ..The Game commission said I saw a Bob cat..It was not a Bob Cat ..I know the difference .

    • steve g

      gary i am from lock haven just down from beech creek i too know wat i saw in the mountains between renovo and farrendsville. it was me and my buddy out for a mt ride apprx. 45 yrds infront of us after we came around a bend in the mt. road. we floored it to catch up, we closed down to prolly 20 yrds but man could it run. had a noticible long tail and was about 2 1/2 to 3 food at shoulders. i would say prolly a juvie but not sure. we were close enough to tell wat it was. i am an avid hunter and i know the animals in my native land. its almost pointless to tell some ppl because they think your crazy or ask wat were u smoking, but i love finding ppl who have had similiar experiences or encounters. i also believe this is why you can carry a pistol in archery season. just to rant on a bit there is an annual hike run in hyner pa that is 17 miles thru some of pa’s most beautiful. the first year of this run there were signs on trees along the paths for hikers that said wat to do if you encounter a mt. lion? the next year they were all taken down. my buddy and i both agree this is something we will never forget and dont care wat the commission says on the lion situation

      • shakerj

        I just came back from my place in Tionesta Twp,Pa had some wrk needed done. Was drvin dwn Redbrush road and low and behold the biggest cat I have ever seen jumped in the middle of the road thn one more jump up n over the bank into a field of soy bean. Im not comparing the one I saw to this one we are making comments on but it was big for tht area.I would say the back was about 2/2 1/2 feet long. The ones I hav seen in the past are mayb a little bigger than a Tom Cat.
        so why not? Mayb we haven’t been lucky nuff to see the big one. Hey im still waitin on this white deer thy say is out there???

      • markpkessinger

        30 years ago the PA Game Commission was denying that coyotes were making a comeback, too. 😉

  15. Josh

    I believe this. The game commision can deny it all they want but how do you think Pa lost so many deer since like 2008 they all didnt just disapear………

  16. Anonymous

    looks like this guy realy likes to hunt muledeer racks look at all of them in the back ground. he didnt get them in pa. what a joke

  17. Laura D.

    I believe this picture is true!! I grew up in Saxton, Pa and saw original pictures a couple years ago from a friend of his. I’d say those other websites that were tagged on here used these original pics for their hoax. The guy who showed me the pictures is an avid hunter who often travels to hunt, so the comment about the racks in the background, there’s your answer! Lots of people go out of state, on hunting trips and hunt different types of animals. Derp derp! On another note, two summers ago, there was a sighting of a mountain lion with a cub right beside my house. That summer I also sighted a mountain lion myself in Hollidaysburg at Dreams Go On therapeutic riding center on Scotch Valley Road. It was almost dusk and we were heading to an outside ring when the girl I was assisting commented about a kitty close by….it was about 100 yds away and it looked like a medium sized dog. I told her it must be a lab because of the tan color, but then I saw a very long slim tail, not a dog’s tail at all. It sat down to watch us and I saw white on its belly and some white on the face. It was definitely a mountain lion.

    • donna

      I grew up in saxton too i might know you

  18. Anonymous

    December 2011 Bradford County while hunting in the Cash Pond area with my wife, we had just seperated. I walked about 250 yards and had just settled in when she called on the radio calling me back to the vehicle. From the sound of her voice she was very shaken. I observed her from 100 yards, she was walking near the vehicle with rifle at the ready. She stated that she seen a large animal laying under a hemlock tree. It was tan in color but not a deer. the animal then ran from the hemlock within 15 yards of her. She stated that the animal was a cat. When I questioned her she stated the the cat ran past her and toward some ledges. She also stated that the cat was bigger that our labrador that was 90 pounds. The game commission officer stated that it must have been a bobcat. She was shown some pictures by me and she picked the Nittany Lion. Friends that live in the area stated that severl reports of montain lions have been reported. The following sping I walked into this area that is closed most of the year. In searching the ledges I found one entrance about 3 feet across and angled down about 8 feet and continued back further into the ledge. There was not any snow at the time of the sighting no tracks were observed. I did find several large bones in the area. I will continue to scout this area this year.

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      sure its ok,,,no big deal.

  21. donna

    Not killed in Pa.killed out west a few years back.

    • shakerj

      Hey donna check the big snake picture I posted. but they say everything is big in texas???

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  25. Anonymous

    This picture is on-line from 2008 out of VA. Have a Good Day.

    • shakerj

      Hey thanks for tht info, but tht pic was posted early 2009? n FYI this page has been running a few years before tht.It was something I found along the way n thot it would make interesting conversations at the time. But again thanks for the comment and all comments are welcome. Did you c the pic of the big Snake?

  26. Kimberly

    They are considered extinct on the east coast because there aren’t enough for a breeding population – however there could remain a few individual cats. I live in the mountains of Maryland, I am out in the woods a lot I have never seen one. I believe this is a hoax and the cat was killed in AZ. There was a pic of a cougar at a sliding glass door a few months back that people said they took while staying a Deep Creek Lake in Garrett County MD – turned out the pic was taken elsewhere. People enjoy lying…..

  27. Rob

    This is from a mountain lion killed out west…take a look at the upper picture and you will see a mountain of mule deer antlers in the background, not whitetail antlers. Nice try…another internet hoax!

  28. Greg

    Wondering if the game commission confiscated the lion yet

  29. Earl

    A mountain lion was shot and killed in western PA last month in a cow pasture. It had attacked a dairy cow, and the farmer killed it. It had a tracking collar around it’s neck. Farmer called the Game Commission, and a guy came out immediately and hauled it away in a pickup truck. The story I’ve heard is that 8 mating pairs were brought and released in central PA over the last 5 or so years, all had tracking collars, intended to help control the coyote population. Obviously if they have babies, they will not have tracking collars.

  30. Brandon

    I live in the poconos and the area I hunt on I have seen the same mountain lion on the property for the past 6 years

  31. Mike

    For several years I owned a property in Sullivan County near the Loyalsock State Forest. While driving down a remote road through the forest one fall afternoon, I observed a cougar walking across a field. My view was unobstructed. As it got to the other side of the field, it briefly turned so I had a clear view of its entire body. It then disappeared into a tree line. It was about 1.5 miles from my house. Three months later, I arrived at my house after a fresh snowfall. There was a fresh set of tracks that crossed my property. The animal actually had walked up to the corner of my house and urinated on the side of the house and in the snow. The tracks belonged to a cougar. The fact that these incidents were 3 months apart suggest, in my opinion, that this was not an animal just passing through the area. Rather,it was living in an established territory.
    I reported my original sighting and received the standard answer about wild cougar’s not existing in Pa. In my opinion, the Pa Game Commission won’t acknowledge their existence for a good reason: If they admitted a population of cougars existed, they would then have to “manage” them. It’s simply easier to deny they exist.
    I spend a great deal of time exploring remote areas and I’ve experienced many great animal encounters. This one is at the top of my list.

  32. Bill K

    I hunted cougars successfully in Pa for years. Of course now that I’m a bit older they dont seem to want anything to do with me although I still visit the same bars.
    On the serious side, do you folks that actually believe the Game Commission is covering up the existence of mountain lions in Pa have any idea what sort of manpower it would take to go out every day and obliterate every track, scat, half eaten kill, and roadkilled mountain lion in the State?

    • Anonymous

      It’s not a cover up at all….its a bogus explanation. They’re not saying cougars don’t exist in Pa nor are they denying credible sightings. They’re just saying there is no natural population. Think about if from a business perspective; if they acknowledged there was a natural population of cougars in Penna, there would be people that would want to protect them and another group that would want to hunt them. The PaGC would be forced to “manage” them like all other game animals/predators. The population in Pa is probably too insignificant to even attempt to manage so its better to deny a native population. This reminds me of the reintroduction of red wolves in North Carolina in 1987….the only wild population of red wolves on the planet. Years later, there are still less than 200 wild red wolves and they are being managed and evaluated by several agencies. My point is it takes work and money to manage even a small predator population.
      I just came back from 2 days of hiking through SGL 13. I found one set of tracks crossing an old logging road. At the end of the day, a cougar in the wild is still a cougar.

  33. Eric Fromm

    I just seen a Mountain Lion today while driving, I was only about 40 feet away from it, it turned and looked right at me. I know it was a mountain lion near Julian, Pa. Now I know they are in Pennsylvania 10-28-2013

  34. Harry Hewko, Jr.

    If its a hoax, thats your fault, but back it the early 2002 or 2003 my buddy and were scotting for turkeys early in Feb and March on Brady’s Lake rd. In Monroe co. PA and for 2 yrs in a row and in about the same area on the road there were Cougar or Mountain Lion tracks and it just would happen i didn’t have my camera with at the time. So when we go home we called the Game Comm. and explained what we saw and right away they said we either were looking at bear tracks,, i already shot bear and track bear and know what bear tracks are,, then they tried to say if it were a cat track, it would have its claws out while walking,, i had cats as pets and cats do not use there claws while walking, only when climing , fighting, running ( sometimes ) and purring. The Game Comm. just don’t want you to know they import cougars , and coyotes cause of the Insureance co. threatened the with lawsuits over all the deer and car accidents. There was another time in about 2005 my uncle and i were on our way to go Turkey hunting in Wayne co. and we were on Rt. 402 near Porters Lake at about 4am when a Puma, Cougar or Mountain Loin ran across in front of my Uncles car and he hit brakes and i told him no, DON’T, hit it, the Game Comm. can see what there stocking, and it took a couple leaps and jumped up over Porter Lakes Fenced in area. And now recieved and text from one of my buddies today ( 11/15/2013 ) say the Game Comm. has set up a bounty on coyotes that they stocked and now it got out of hand for them and they dont know what to do,, i guess thats what they call ” Carma” . You lie to the huntersand it comes and bites them back in the A__s….!!! PS:: Just to let you know, you dont have to make up a cougar hoax for Pa, cause , there really here…

  35. Lori Bertothy

    The only ones we have seen and solidly identified were very dark, near black in color and within 30 yds of us. Three sightings, by us…within a mile of our house, over the last 10 years – 2 within the last year – Berwick, Pa.

  36. Anonymous

    Just saw a mountain lion while bear hunting this past Saturday 11/23/13 while up in Gaines Township Tioga County in the the Tioga State forrest. i have been hunting there for over 15 years and have seen bear, bobcats, coyote, and deer. this was something I didnt expect to see but Im 100% sure that what I saw was a mountain lion

  37. Mare Bastian

    The one I saw north of Williamsport was not dark, but tan, typical coloring of a mountain lion. Long bodied, long tail. When you see one, you know what you’re looking at. The tail is what confirmed what I saw. There was no mistaking this cat. It was at least 80 pounds, more likely 100.

  38. Chris Hoover

    I have lived and hunted in pa all my life, even worked in power line construction(outside) for many years. I have seen bobcats, coyotes, bear, too many deer to remember, just about all the wildlife that is supposed to be here. With the exception of a fisher which they have been reintroducing. I had a very good conversation with a park ranger at Blue Knob State Park 25 years ago about the possible existence of eastern cougars. He informed me that they had collected scat, track castings and confirmed a kill and DNA from at least 2 different mountain lions in the park within the two years prior. I think if the food is here, why would they leave. If the PGC admits they are here, then they have to come up with a management plan. Don’t look for the PGC to admit the big cats existence anytime soon.

  39. Anonymous

    I had a “BIG FOOT” type cougar sighting on Rt. 487 Sullivan County PA. near Lake Jean, Rickett’s Glenn State Park. I was driving south on 487 when a large dark (likely black) animal with a long slightly curved tail crossed the road.

    Driving probably a bit faster then the 45 MPH speed limit the sighting was almost a blur, leaving me to second guess what I though I had seen. But my instinct asked was that a cougar?

  40. Anonymous

    I saw one along rte. 80 once. It was sitting up and perfectly still. And now for the weird part. I was a passenger in a car and the guy who spotted it was Mario Nuciglio. He spotted a mountain lion 2 miles away on his right with a passenger next to him while driving a car past a 50 foot clearing at 60 mph. He hit the brakes and started screaming “I just saw a mountain lion”. He put the car in reverse and backed up about 500 ft on the shoulder of the road. We got out of the car and he pointed to it but I still couldn’t see it. I had to look down his arm and finally after a minute, saw it with my own two eyes. It was about 50 miles east of state college on 80 in Pennsylvania.

  41. Hailey

    WHY DID YOU OR YOUR FRIEND KILL IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡

  42. Devon Kondas

    Anyone who would kill a creature this beautiful deserves to be sentenced to death. I support that 100 %. A life for a life.

  43. Anonymous

    Fake news! Snopes – Killed by truck in AZ back in 2007.

  44. Franklin

    Not related to any stories of a hoax but I myself witnessed a mountain lion sighting in East Brunswick Township Schuylkill county in late January of 2015 at work an image caught my eye at first I thought what a gigantic cat until it got up from a lying position and started to walk I was like omg that’s a mountain lion it was at a distance about 60 yards in a harvested corn field I was in shock and of course when I told coworkers it may as well of been Bigfoot until one coworker shared his story of a sighting in West Penn Township near Tamaqua

  45. Brian

    I don’t care what the game commission says. I saw a mountain lion with my own two eyes and my wife saw it also. Myself and my wife are coming home from State College PA around Whipples damn area we had a mountain lion run acrossed in front of us while we were on our motorcycle. I have been an avid hunter since I was 12 years old I was 48 when I saw it. I know a mountain lion when I see a mountain lion. So who cares what the game commission says there are mountain lions in Pennsylvania.

  46. Anonymous

    wheres all the pictures??? lots and lots of sightings but no one has a “valid” picture. oh yea i forgot to mention i was driving on the turnpike and a Bigfoot was rolling around in the passing lane. we slowed down to have a close look at only 6′ away but we didn’t take a picture. we didn’t think it would be polite. he wasn’t clothed.

    • Mike

      Sounds like some are skeptical. There are probably 45,000 coyotes in Penna yet I’ve only clearly seen two. The occasional cougar sighting is not too far fetched. The population is obviously very small, which also accounts for the lack of physical evidence (other than the occasional sighting). Finding a carcass would be a small miracle. Heck, other than roadkills, its not common to find any large dead animal in the wild. Some sightings, like with other animals, are probably misidentifications. However, some are hard to dispute, especially when they come from people who know the outdoors and wild animals.
      At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if they’re from a natural population or have escaped from the circus, whether there’s 10, 50, or 187….there are cougars in Penna.

      • Scout

        Well put. I have a cabin bordering Buchanon State Forrest in Bedford County. After talking with several of the farmers in the Valleys below us, it’s pretty hard to dismiss their presence. They speak of the their encounters with Mt Lions very casually. They’ve seem to have accepted their presence and would laugh at any one challenging what they see fairly often. I’ve only been their a few years but hooe to be fortunate enough to see one. I believe that they have finally conceded that there is a breeding population in the Adirondack Mountains of New York State. Maybe someone can correct me if I’m wrong.

  47. Ernesto

    Whoa!

  48. Anonymous

    Amazing! Where there is a male that big there is a female! So there ARE big cats out there for sure.

  49. Will

    This mountain lion was hot in Arizona, Arkansas, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan. Somehow all at the same time. Remember it’s the Internet. Unless you see it first hand it didn’t happen the way you’re told it did. Don’t be so gullible. No one wants to see them back on Pa more than me.but for gods sake’s go with a credible reliable news source

  50. Doug Wholaver

    I have seen cougars at least 4 times in my lifetime and I am 50 years old the ones that I have seen this has been in the last 15 years meaning I believe they are migrating here from somewhere rather from the south ,west,or even the northern areas such as Canada threw new York much like the coyote has done and wolves done in Michigan

  51. Anonymous

    Soft kitty ,warm kitty,little ball of fur…………

  52. R.R Smith

    I have been a resident of NEPA for 12 years, I am 37 and when I was 5, my grandfather retired up here from Jersey, and subsequently, I spent my summers on the farm in Ararat township with him. Even back then, he had stories of friends who had seen Lions. Back in 07′ or so, I saw a photograph of a lion, taken in Ararat, that a man named Kameen had in his possession, he was the photographer. The mans hunting lodge is about a mile from my house, on an adjacent dirt road. About 3 weeks ago, I saw my Lion…I was seeing my girlfriend off to work at about 7:15 am, and I caught movement to my right, in the very driveway where I spent countless summers. I now live directly across the creek from the old farmhouse, which is now vacant. The Lion I saw was tawny, whitish underbelly, 30+ inch tail…thick legs, small head, Felis Concolor. The farm is less than 100 yards away from me, and I know my beasts…I am an avid hunter and hold a BA in zoology…this was no bob, it was a cougar…bar none. The week before before, the mother of my children, whom lives 3 houses down, stopped by my house after 10 pm and told me she saw a Lion cross the road into the woods on my road, which leads to my treestand. I am surprised it took me this long to see the Lion, for I have a good flock of free range chickens and meat rabbits.

    I know the reactions will be…where the pics, what about tracks? I don’t carry my phone with me at 7 am out in my yard…I know in today’s age, people cannot fathom the idea of not toting a phone on every tedious excursion into the yard, but I, myself am an old soul, and whilst I have a nice smartphone…it is not my constant companion, I will be taking a sidearm into the archery woods this coming month…thanks for reading…

  53. Sky White

    I saw a Mt Lion on route 81 South near Minersville, Pennsylvania on Jan, 19th 2017. Say what you want. I know what I saw. No doubt there is at least on cat in PA.

    • R.R. Smith

      There is more than one cat…there more than likely is a remnant population in the more mountainous areas…

    • Brushbeaten

      We saw one April 2017 on Highridge Park Road close to 81.

  54. Brushbeaten

    Saw a mountain line on Highridge Park Road last month April 2017 close to RT 81 not far from Minersville. It was a tan with a long tail and around 40 – 50#. Witnessed by 2 different people in separate vehicles. We both saw it.

  55. Rob

    Is this not the 2007 Arizona cat.?

  56. Anonymous

    Every animal I’ve seen hit by a vehicle usually has some sort of road rash, and I’m sure if a big cat is killed in pa. The game commission is going to confiscate it, and lastly I don’t know of anyone in pa that has such a huge collection of mule deer sheds like the man in this picture!!

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